TRANSCRIPT
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The Rabbi Daniel Lapin Podcast
Episode: An Insider Look at Islam
Date: 09/04/2026 Length: 00:56:51
Susan Lapin (00:01)
Hi, we're talking to Danny Burmawi whom I am thrilled to do so. I've been reading his articles and listening to him for a while now. And we could spend the entire hour. We would love to hear your story about how you grew up. From what I understand, you were born in Jordan to a Muslim family, raised as a Muslim, and then became a Christian. And I'm sure that would be a fascinating story that everybody would be interested in, but it would take our time, and so we're not gonna do it.
Susan Lapin (00:31)
Where I would like to start though is just to give an idea, how rare or common is that for somebody who's brought up in a Muslim family to become a Christian? And is it something that you're seeing increase or decrease or any movement, or is it just you're a one offer?
Danny Burmawi (00:48)
Definitely in the past few decades the numbers are increasing. and that is due to the internet age. So you know when you live inside a bubble and you're shielded from any examination of your understanding of the word.
Danny Burmawi (01:16)
You're protected. You don't think, you don't question, and especially if the ideology that you follow discourage questioning. And this is exactly what Islam is. Islam in the Quran itself, Allah
Danny Burmawi (01:34)
actually is terrifying Muslims of questioning anything about Islam. There's a verse that says, Don't ask about things if you find out the answers you might be uncomfortable.
Susan Lapin (01:51)
Wow.
Danny Burmawi (01:52)
Yeah. So it is the opposite of Judaism, for example. Judaism
Susan Lapin (01:56)
Yes, we're all about questions.
Danny Burmawi (02:00)
so
Danny Burmawi (02:02)
That is why I grew up in that bubble, especially in a country like Jordan, ninety-nine percent, ninety-eight percent of the populations are Muslim Sunni, one sect. You don't imagine that there are different people, different group of people, different school of thoughts. yes, we have TVs, but that is just
Danny Burmawi (02:32)
It's not real, you know what I mean? Someone like me who got to meet the first non Muslim non Sunni Muslim in his life when he was eighteen, believe it or not. Never met anyone who was not Sunni Muslim prior to that.
Danny Burmawi (02:48)
And in that environment, you believe anything. So we were programmed to believe that Islam is the only true religion.
Danny Burmawi (03:01)
And Jews and Christians they know that Muhammad is a prophet, but they don't want to follow him because following Muhammad means that they have to let go of all their worldly desires and pursuing the appetite. So and Jews and Christians they know that their scriptures are corrupted and
Danny Burmawi (03:26)
They are converting to Islam by millions and millions. All the smart among them are converting to Islam.
Susan Lapin (03:35)
interesting.
Danny Burmawi (03:36)
yeah. The West is plotting against Islam, the Zionist is plotting against Islam, they are kidnapping all the remarkable people who are Muslims. For example, if there's like an inventor, they would kidnap him and steal the invention so that Islam doesn't get any credit for anything.
Danny Burmawi (03:56)
all kind of conspiracy theories, grievances and victimhood narratives, you know, just consolidating the grievances.
Susan Lapin (04:02)
one of the things that I personally have trouble with and I think many Americans do, I believe that about there are about what twenty three countries that are Muslim countries and it's close to a quarter of the population of the world is Muslim and yet you've got
Danny Burmawi (04:17)
Fifty seven countries,
Danny Burmawi (04:18)
but twenty three they have in the constitution that Islam is the religion of the state. Yeah.
Susan Lapin (04:23)
Okay, thank you. So you have Jordan, you have Syria, you have Morocco, you have the UAE, you have can this be put into one basket of Islam or are they each totally there is Shia, there is Sunni, which you know, to quite frankly to an American that's kind of like I don't know what you know what it's incomprehensible. What is this? How do you deal with Islam when there are so many different
Susan Lapin (04:50)
facets of it and nationalities and so are you asking
Danny Burmawi (04:53)
Okay.
Daniel Lapin (04:54)
whether there is where there are overarching principles that unite everybody? Yes, or is there hope? Can you say, well let's look at this country. I see this is a hopeful country.
Danny Burmawi (05:08)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (05:09)
This is a great question. And to answer it, let me ask you this. Are Jews all the same? No.
Susan Lapin (05:17)
No, not
Danny Burmawi (05:19)
But but there are certain things specific things that makes the Jew all Jews the same. For example, the sanctity of life.
Danny Burmawi (05:31)
so here here's the thing. People are affected by different cultures, different upbringing, different education systems, etc. But there are certain things that are the pillars that they don't disagree on. They all agree on. So when you look at Islam
Danny Burmawi (05:51)
You might think that you know Indonesian Islam is different than Syrian Islam, different than Saudi Islam. And that is true in a sense that they probably follow different school of thoughts in how to wash their face before prayer, how to fast, how to do pilgrimage. But there are things that if you don't believe in, you're not a Muslim. You're out.
Danny Burmawi (06:20)
And these things, the infallibility of the Quran, Muhammad was the perfect example, he's the model. Islam is gonna take over the world. So if you don't believe in these, you're not a Muslim. You identify with Islam, but you're not a Muslim. So I understand that people find it very difficult to believe that Islam is such a monolithic
Danny Burmawi (06:50)
Entity, but actually it is when it comes to what matters. When it comes to other stuff, yeah, well, who cares? But what matters? That relationship with the non-Muslim, any Muslim who is kind to you, who is nice to you, is doing that in spite of Islam, not because of Islam. And that is the problem. In the West, you have a nice Muslim neighbor.
Danny Burmawi (07:19)
A n a nice friend, nice Muslim friend, and you reject to believe that Islam is a problem because I have a nice Muslim friend. So you
Susan Lapin (07:30)
Right.
Danny Burmawi (07:30)
take your nice Muslim friend and you extrapolate that and you say, this is Islam. This is not Islam. He's nice in spite of Islam, not because of Islam. If he is to follow Islam, he won't be nice to toward you or toward any non-Muslim.
Danny Burmawi (07:49)
Yesterday there was a German former Muslim. He is well known on X. And he was talking, he is originally from a Turkish origin, but he grew up in Germany, and he was talking about what he learned at home as he was growing up. Jews and Christians are infidels, they must be subjugated, they must pay the jizya, they must die if they
Danny Burmawi (08:14)
reject to do that and all that, you know, the entire thing. So I I wrote something, I said, well, it's really fascinating. This guy grew up in Germany, I grew up in Jordan. Our organization, Ideological Defense Institute, has 10 former Muslims, one from Saudi Arabia, one from Morocco, one from Egypt, one from Yemen, one from Sir Syria, one from Iraq.
Danny Burmawi (08:43)
And I have met thousands and thousands of former Muslims, and all of us from tens of different states, we learned the same thing. So when people assume that, it's just a friend, just you know, a smaller group of radicals who hijacked Islam, there is nothing to hijack, my friend. What Islam itself is a problem because Islam is not.
Danny Burmawi (09:12)
A religion in the Western definition. In the West, what is a religion? When the Founding Fathers put down the principles of the Republic, were they thinking of Islam? No. They were thinking about the different denominations of Christianity, Catholicism and Protestantism, and they were thinking about Judaism. So this is like their entire world. maybe some of the
Danny Burmawi (09:40)
indigenous people religions, but it was not really relevant at the time.
Daniel Lapin (09:47)
they were Bible centric.
Danny Burmawi (09:49)
Yeah, they were Bible centric, exactly. So the definition of religion, even though like in different fields, if you look from a sociological or psychological or anthropological angle, you have different definition. But at the end of the day, it all pertains to spiritual, metaphysical, something in the beyond. it is a system that informs your worldview.
Danny Burmawi (10:19)
Alright, so there is a worldview. In Judaism there is a worldview, and Christianity there is a worldview. In Islam there is a worldview. That is fantastic. That is religion. Now in Christianity and Judaism.
Danny Burmawi (10:32)
Is there any commandment by God to pursue political power to enforce that worldview on the society? The answer
Susan Lapin (10:42)
No. No.
Danny Burmawi (10:43)
is no. Even when the church was ruled by a religious authority that had political ambitions and used its religious authority to control the society, that was not biblical.
Danny Burmawi (10:58)
That was not from the Christian Bible. There's nothing in the Christian Bible that asks the church to control the society. So even in Judaism, if one if anyone wants to argue, Judaism is similar to Islam, it has this political well,
Susan Lapin (11:13)
No.
Danny Burmawi (11:15)
Judaism is not a proselytizing religion, it doesn't want to convert the entire world, it doesn't want to control the political aspect of society. Now in Islam, there is this.
Danny Burmawi (11:28)
Commandment. If you don't rule by what Allah has revealed, you are the disbeliever and fight the disbeliever until they convert or pay jizya or be killed. So that is a very
Susan Lapin (11:39)
You just can you just you just
Susan Lapin (11:40)
said the pay what was the word you Jizya Tax
Danny Burmawi (11:42)
Jizya - Jizya is a tax
Danny Burmawi (11:45)
on non Muslims, Jews and Christians mainly, because if you're not a Jew or a Christian, then you don't actually get that luxury to pay jizya. You just get killed or convert. So b this was an exception to the people of the book. Now if you take that that part of Islam, the political part.
Danny Burmawi (12:11)
And compare it to fascism, communism, Nazism, Conservatism, Liberalism all the isms, you found a common ground there. It is the same thing. The Conservative Party wants to seek power or take over and impose that worldview on the society. the communists they want the same thing. So this is a political thing.
Danny Burmawi (12:39)
And when you are starting from a political ideology, you're not ashamed. You say it. We want to convince everyone and actually force everyone to follow what we believe in. We don't want abortion in the society. We are going to shut down all the clinics. That is a political view, even though we could argue it is a spiritual view, but still I'm talking from a political perspective here in Christianity,
Danny Burmawi (13:08)
you don't get to go and destroy an abortion clinic, for example. You don't have the right. In a political ideology, well, you do it through the law. In Islam, the law is what Allah has commanded, and Allah has commanded that you make change with your hand if you can't, with your tongue, if you can't, with your heart. So it's all contingent on,
Danny Burmawi (13:37)
ability. If you can or not.
Daniel Lapin (13:41)
You're blowing my mind here. This is unbelievable because
Susan Lapin (13:47)
If I'm understanding correctly, what I would say is Jews are very comfortable being a minority in a diaspora. Jews are very comfortable living in Italy or in Zimbabwe or in Australia and obeying the law of the country. And Christians, pretty much the same thing. The only slight difference is Christians will proselytize, but not by
Susan Lapin (14:16)
force they will make Christianity available, but still living comfortably under the secular governmental authorities. Are you saying that any believing Muslim cannot do those things?
Danny Burmawi (14:33)
Course not. Of course not. They cannot do any of these things. In Judaism, we have dina de-malkhuta dina or the law of the land is the law. So wherever you live, you respect the law of the land. In Christianity, in the book of Romans, it's very clear: obey the authorities, don't revolt against the authority. They are assigned by God, don't worry, God will take care of things. In Islam, no, you are.
Danny Burmawi (15:00)
commanded to take down any un-Islamic system and replace it with Sharia, to replace it with an Islamic authority. So Islamic polity is the only polity possible in any society. And wherever Muslims live, actually there are some fatwas by Muslim clerics that prohibited migrating to another non-Islamic country unless you have
Danny Burmawi (15:31)
A plan to take down that system and make it Islamic.
Daniel Lapin (15:34)
This this is unbelievable.
Danny Burmawi (15:36)
Yeah, because
Danny Burmawi (15:37)
man made law is inferior to divine law and
Daniel Lapin (15:45)
so to Muslims around the world, the fact that the one of the biggest cities in the world, London, got a Muslim mayor, and the fact that New York got a Muslim mayor, are you saying that to millions of Muslims around the world, these are signs that we're winning?
Danny Burmawi (16:04)
As long as this is really this is funny. Zoran Mamdani is a Shia Muslim. Shia for Sunnis are infidels. Okay? They're not even Muslims. Yet,
Susan Lapin (16:17)
Gosh.
Danny Burmawi (16:17)
Muslims everywhere celebrated that Mamdani is the mayor of New York. Why? Because it is a step forward. A Shia Muslim that means well, a Sunni Muslim is acceptable. Now we can we can do it. Number two.
Danny Burmawi (16:34)
In Islam, and I'm not making this up. You can't this is from history. In Islam, as long as the caliph, the king, is a Muslim, it doesn't really matter what he does, if he's religious or not. Many of the Muslim caliphs throughout the Islamic history, they were they were brutal, they were living
Danny Burmawi (17:04)
What is the word? Very filthy life. Okay, woman, drinks, all that.
Daniel Lapin (17:10)
decadent. Mm-hmm.
Danny Burmawi (17:11)
And still they were representing Islamic polity. Because it's not about the person, it's about the symbol. That is why I always say if Bibi Netanyahu converts to Islam tonight, the Arab Israeli conflict would end in the morning. Not only that.
Danny Burmawi (17:29)
Muslim countries would be gifting him lands. Like, please come and take my land, because now you're a Muslim. So it is absolutely had nothing to do with borders or land or because you know Arabs are in love
Danny Burmawi (17:43)
with lands and they don't want to let go of this conflict because you know they want their borders. That is that is ridiculous. Of course not. Millions of Muslims throw themselves in the Mediterranean and hope.
Danny Burmawi (17:55)
To reach the shores of freedom in Europe. They don't care about land. But when it comes to the Israeli Arab conflict, it is an Israeli-Islam conflict. That is how it should be understood because the sovereignty on the land, on an Islamic land, is not Islamic. And land in Islam is similar to people. People convert from one religion to another religion. Lands also convert in Islam. A land is non-Islamic.
Danny Burmawi (18:24)
Once it turned Islamic, it cannot apostate, cannot convert out. So that is why Israel, the state of Israel is an affront to Allah a rupture in the Islamic theology.
Daniel Lapin (18:38)
If there are about six million Muslims in the United States, is that roughly a figure that you're familiar with?
Danny Burmawi (18:46)
Well the numbers the official number is less than that. It's around four point seven, but I believe that illegal Muslims in America who are not documented also count to millions.
Susan Lapin (19:01)
of those, would you venture a guess? How many of them are looking at themselves as part of an ultimate Islamicization of the United States? How many of them see themselves as part of Allah's army? How many of them give a thought once a week or once a month to this idea of one day America will be under Sharia? a lot or a few?
Danny Burmawi (19:28)
Conscious knowledge of this is irrelevant. Doesn't matter. Because you are part of a system that is proof against failure. What do I mean by that?
Danny Burmawi (19:50)
If you are a Muslim who doesn't think about any of these things, you're just, you know, busy working, keeping keeping food on the table, building your future, your company. And you don't really interact with these ideas. And in your district, two people are running for office a Muslim and a non Muslim. You're going to vote for the Muslim, regardless of policies.
Danny Burmawi (20:21)
And most of the time the Muslim who's running for office he intends to carry out that project of Islamizing the land. So the problem with moderate Muslims is that they fuel the machine of Islamic expansion, whether they know they are involved in the project or not, because of the tribal nature of Islam itself.
Danny Burmawi (20:47)
And because loyalty
Daniel Lapin (20:47)
So so they they would give money, for instance?
Danny Burmawi (20:50)
they would give money, yeah. And here let me just make a comment about the theological part of things. So in Judaism, the relationship between a Jew and the law, the law of God, unlike what many Christians think, is not fear based, it's actually by choice. You want to do it because
Danny Burmawi (21:15)
You're not the center of the world, so you want this relationship which it comes out of a covenant. So you are already a son and a daughter to God, and you're participating in obedience to the law is out of love, out of respect, right? And in Christianity, it's the same thing. We don't have a law, we have what we call the law of love, which
Danny Burmawi (21:45)
Includes the Torah, which not in particular, but I mean in the spirit, it's obeying God out of love. It's about a relationship. You don't do it because you want to get saved, you do it because you are fascinated with the beauty of God and you want to obey Him. In Islam, the law is given so that you could save yourself. You're not saved from Egypt, and after that, you're giving or handed the law.
Danny Burmawi (22:14)
No, you're handed the law in Egypt, and that is a problem. Because if you're handed the law in Egypt and that law is your only way toward liberation, then you don't care about what the law entails. You will obey it anyway because you want to be saved, you want to be liberated. You see the difference here? So in Islam, you obey that law of Allah.
Susan Lapin (22:42)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (22:43)
Because you want salvation. Now, what if there is something immoral in that law? Doesn't matter. I want to be saved. So that is the where the justification of the goodness of the law becomes very important for Muslims. They need to justify all the commandments of Allah because if they question the morality of the law of
Susan Lapin (23:08)
Mm.
Danny Burmawi (23:08)
Allah, of the commandments of Allah, then they you are.
Danny Burmawi (23:12)
Playing with their vehicle to salvation. You cannot do that. So
Danny Burmawi (23:20)
Islam and Islamic law is designed in a way that you must fail. There is no way to keep the law 100%, not even 90%, not even 50%. It is too much, overwhelming. If you think that the 613 commandments in Judaism is too much,
Susan Lapin (23:42)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (23:44)
no, it's not. I know that many Jews think, we are.
Danny Burmawi (23:48)
You think the law is difficult. No, it's not it in Islam it's like imagine everyday Shabbat in Islam. More difficult than everyday Shabbat. And you cannot
Susan Lapin (24:01)
Impossible.
Danny Burmawi (24:02)
do that because it's not only about rituals
Susan Lapin (24:04)
Mm-hmm.
Danny Burmawi (24:05)
outside, it's about an your ontological being, how you live. It's if you go to the toilet.
Danny Burmawi (24:14)
I remember when I was a Muslim, I would go to the toilet using my right leg and after I'm you know I start doing what I'm doing, I remember I used my right leg to enter. So I would go out and then enter again with my left leg. So this is just a small example of how Muslims they of course the
Susan Lapin (24:35)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (24:36)
majority of Muslims they don't follow any of these things because they're too much. If you eat with your left hand, you're an infidel.
Danny Burmawi (24:43)
You're inviting Satan to eat with you. If you a lot of crazy details. Now, why do I say by design? Because if you secure your salvation through obeying these spiritual this spiritual thing, then you're
Susan Lapin (24:58)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (24:59)
fine. But if you fail, if you cannot be saved through the law, then Allah is giving you an exit. And what is that exit? Jihad.
Danny Burmawi (25:12)
So in Christianity in Protestant in the Protestant church we have something called Sola Fide faith alone. You believe and you're saved. I call it in Islam sola jihad. Jihad alone. Your work is not going to save you, your jihad is the only way to save you, and that is very clear all over the Quran.
Danny Burmawi (25:39)
The only way where you don't go to the grave torture, where you don't stand before Allah and give account for your works is if you die fighting for the path of Allah.
Susan Lapin (25:52)
So you're explaining because I think one of the fallacies of Western thought is we're all people. You know, all mothers are mothers and would and then you hear, and there are recorded stories. I remember watching there was a Muslim child who Israel let in from, I don't know if it was from Jordan, from wherever, was coming in for treatment and treated and they had a very genetic disease and the
Susan Lapin (26:17)
Israeli hospital and the doctors in Israel, who are Jews and Christians and Muslims, you know, saved them. And then they interviewed the mother. They had a whole documentary about how they saved him. And at the end, they interviewed the parents and they said to the mother, What is your hope of this child? And her answer was, I hope he comes back and blows up this hospital. And like to the Western mind, that's incomprehensible. But what you're saying is that is her only hope of salvation.
Susan Lapin (26:46)
Her child's only hope and probably as his mother her hope that she would kind of go on his coattails.
Danny Burmawi (26:53)
Well it ha it has a spiritual ground and it also has a societal significance. So spiritually, if her son dies as a martyr, then he would intercede for seventy people, seventy members of his family. So the entire family is going to paradise. And from a societal point of view, it is an honor.
Danny Burmawi (27:22)
You know, the mother of the martyr. That is an honor. So yeah, I was sharing a few videos from Hezbollah fighters' mothers this past week. you know, will come in the coffins of their sons who died in the battle, and they what they were saying is unbelievable. It's like they were like, my son, thank God, this makes me happy.
Danny Burmawi (27:48)
She's looking at the coffin of her son. She's like, this makes me happy. now Allah accept my offering. So do you remember in the Bible when God would punish the nations that offer their children to the idols? And then
Susan Lapin (28:07)
Manner, yeah.
Danny Burmawi (28:08)
God asked.
Danny Burmawi (28:09)
Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, but he stopped him, and God was showing something. He was saying, I am worthy more than these idols to be offered your sons, but I don't want it, even though I'm worthy. So I'm going to stop you because and I'm going to provide the alternative. Now, think of Islam as the God of these religions that.
Danny Burmawi (28:39)
God was punishing. Because even though there is no clean or clear or direct commandment to sacrifice your children for me, or you know what? Thinking about it, I think there is because when Allah is saying, when Allah is saying in the Quran, fight in the path of Allah, if you get killed, that is the great reward. Allah is demanding.
Danny Burmawi (29:06)
Blood sacrifice to be pleased. So Allah is similar to the pagan gods from the Hebrew Bible, and that is why when I hear rabbis saying, like, Islam and Judaism, they're closer to each other than Christianity and Judaism. Why? Because of pure
Susan Lapin (29:27)
Nonsense.
Danny Burmawi (29:28)
monotheism, you know. Christians are pagans, Islam is like pure monotheism. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? First of all.
Danny Burmawi (29:35)
It doesn't matter. It's not about the numbers. It's like, they have one, we have one. So if I worship a rat, I'm monotheistic, a rat in heaven. It's ridiculous. But my problem with that is not only this, but Christianity and Judaism they share the moral framework. For example, I'm Christian. I believe that we have intrinsic value because we were created in the image of God. This is based on
Danny Burmawi (30:02)
Genesis 3, Now, a Jew believes the same thing. So me and you, we share the most important things. We differ
Susan Lapin (30:09)
Yes.
Danny Burmawi (30:09)
on Eschatology. We differ on the person of the Moshiach. We believe it was Jesus of Nazareth. You believe that no Mushach is coming. We disagree on the nature of the Messiah. We believe that he was a person of the Trinity. but all of these things, they are not going to turn into policy. When
Danny Burmawi (30:29)
The Congress meet to write down policies that is going to determine the shape of the society that is you're going to pass to the next generation. They're not going to be, this policy is based on the deity or non-deity of Jesus Christ. No. What they
Susan Lapin (30:46)
Correct.
Danny Burmawi (30:47)
are going to build their policy on is the moral framework that Jews and Christians share.
Danny Burmawi (30:55)
So when you think, Christians and Jews, they don't, you know, there's no Judeo Christian. First of all, people who say that they're idiots. Second of all, when you say that Islam and Judaism they worship, you know, the similar god or they're closer to each other, you don't understand Islam. Islam has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. Islam hijacked the Jewish history, Jewish prophets, in order to utilize them to
Danny Burmawi (31:24)
serve the narrative of Muhammad, not
Susan Lapin (31:26)
Mm.
Danny Burmawi (31:27)
because he respects anything Jewish, not because he respects anything Christian. It is a hijack. It is just stealing your stories to give legitimacy to a false prophet.
Susan Lapin (31:41)
So we for years were talking we w and a lot more years than I want to admit to, we were warning about anti Christianism in the United States of America, that if you could get America to be a more secular state, it was going to be a huge if you could get Christianity as a social and cultural thing out of the United States, you were now going to have a country that was going to be very dangerous to Jews.
Susan Lapin (32:10)
is an automatic downstream consequence of secularization of society. And now, however, we see the rise of Christian nationalism. And this is really a a very new thing and it's the left you have I we never spoke about anti-Semitism until the past two, three years, because we really felt it wasn't part of the United States, it just wasn't part of the general persona of the United States.
Susan Lapin (32:38)
But now you have on the left the serious anti-Semitism coming from Islam and it's you know, you've got c Qatar's influence, but you also on the right have this Christian nationalism where all of a sudden we have in the name of Christianity, we have to hate Jews, hate Israel.
Danny Burmawi (32:58)
I'm not sure if you have a lot of Christian followers, but here is my excellent.
Susan Lapin (33:00)
We do mostly. Most of our followers are Christian.
Danny Burmawi (33:04)
So here is here is what I would say to Christian nationalist. Jesus rejects you. Not I'm not saying that. Jesus himself showed that. How? When people came to kidnap Jesus and make him king for political reasons, they did not care about him as you know.
Danny Burmawi (33:26)
The Messiah in a spiritual per way, but they wanted to kidnap him. This is from the Christian Bible to make him a king for political reasons against the Romans. Jesus disappeared from within them. He didn't want anything to do with them. So, Christian nationalists who want to declare Jesus' king for political reasons, Jesus rejects you. Just the same way he rejected those people who wanted to make him king just because.
Danny Burmawi (33:54)
They cared about politics, not because about they cared about God. You don't care about God. Your usage of the term Christ is king to take a jab at Jews is rejected by Jesus Himself. So this is number one. Number two, in Christian scripture in the New Testament, even though you could see certain verses and say, this is anti-Semitic, this is against Jews, this is against Judaism, actually, the language in the New Testament.
Danny Burmawi (34:22)
Is talking to Jews the same way Hosiah was talking to Jews, the same way Ezekiel was talking to Jews. So when Hoseiah was complaining about Jews or calling them certain things, he's not anti-Semite. Why? Because he was a Jew talking to Jews, the army, the nation, the people of God. The same thing about the New Testament authors, they were seeing themselves as part of.
Danny Burmawi (34:49)
The Jewish lexicon, the Jewish word, and they were using the same language, they were talking to their people and describing them in a certain way, not so that Gentiles would come and use these verses a thousand years later and say, you see, you did this, you did that. Well, do you know who the prophets who accused Jews of killing prophets? They were the prophets in the Old Testament.
Danny Burmawi (35:13)
They were talking to their own people. it's like you are disobedient to God. So when the New Testament uses the same language, it doesn't mean that you get to take it and be anti-Semite. That is a false understanding of Christian scripture. They were Jewish authors talking
Susan Lapin (35:31)
Yeah.
Danny Burmawi (35:32)
to their own people. You don't have the right to appropriate that language so that you can.
Danny Burmawi (35:39)
Serve your political positions against Jews. Number two, this false narrative that Jewish influence in America is as dangerous as Islamic influence is very dangerous to America because Jewish influence in America, what does Jews want? They want to protect the only state in an ocean of enemies.
Danny Burmawi (36:07)
Right? So, what is the maximum they want from the system? AIPAC, for example, it has a clear message on its website. Keep the Congress pro-Israel. They're not lying, they're not playing around, they're very direct. We want to keep the Congress pro-Israel so that we protect the Jewish state. Where's the problem in that? Islamic influence, on the other hand, is not similar or comparable to the Jewish influence.
Danny Burmawi (36:35)
Because if you have Islamic influence, it's not about protecting a state
Susan Lapin (36:38)
Mm.
Danny Burmawi (36:39)
somewhere or about certain project. No, it's about converting
Susan Lapin (36:43)
Yeah, yeah.
Danny Burmawi (36:44)
America into an Islamic society. It's about replacing the constitution of the United States with Sharia. So I am just I can't I'm fed up with how people keep comparing Zionism and Islam as if we're talking about
Danny Burmawi (37:02)
Two projects similar to each other. They have nothing to do with each other. And Americans, if they stand against Zionism, against Israel, they're serving Islam. They're making the West vulnerable and weak. So
Susan Lapin (37:15)
Hmm.
Danny Burmawi (37:16)
that is why I wrote my book, Islam, Israel and the West, and I hope people get to read it.
Daniel Lapin (37:21)
We will give a link to it. We will promote it for sure. back in the early twentieth century, many Jews were behind the Bolshevik party. And many Jews were socialists, and even many of the Jews that immigrated to the United States were socialists. However, they were socialists as a substitute for Judaism. without exception, I think I can say.
Susan Lapin (37:47)
Jews that are loyal to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are opposed to socialism. Socialism and Judaism are at odds. They cannot coexist. socialism is essentially
Susan Lapin (38:01)
The civilization that emerges from secularism and Judaism is a civilization that emerged from a God-centric worldview. How does it work that in America today we see this weird alliance between socialism and Islam? How does that happen? if I can add also queers for Palestine. In other words, you have all these alliances.
Susan Lapin (38:29)
Which making absolutely zero sense. right now, there seems to be this what I call an unholy alliance between socialism and Muslims. How does that work?
Danny Burmawi (38:42)
There are a lot there's a lot to be said about this this question. I will try to comment on this on three or four points. number one, if I believe let's say in Naziism or if I fund Nazis, me, Danny Burmawi.
Danny Burmawi (39:04)
Does anyone have the right to say, Muslims fund Nazism? Because Danny Burmawi funds Nazi. First of all, I'm not a Muslim. Probably you could look at me and say, this guy comes from Jordan, he grew up a Muslim, he's a Muslim. Same thing with Jews who fund all of these crazy open borders,
Susan Lapin (39:26)
Yes.
Danny Burmawi (39:27)
crazy agenda. What do they have to do with Judaism?
Susan Lapin (39:30)
None at nothing at all.
Danny Burmawi (39:31)
So that is I don't know why people keep associating Soros with Judaism and Jewish agenda.
Susan Lapin (39:38)
Correct.
Danny Burmawi (39:38)
Maybe because Jews are over represented in these movements, but it's due to the success of Jews, not because Jews is
Danny Burmawi (39:48)
Trying to take over the world. Just they're over represented in the Nobel Prize. They're over represented in academia. They're over represented in any way because of their success. So they are over represented in the leftist crazy agenda organizations, whatever. Number one, number two.
Danny Burmawi (40:08)
Before I talk about the radical left and Islam and this alliance, I wanna talk about Jews who are trying to make sure that they don't identify with
Danny Burmawi (40:21)
Israel or Zionism or Jews, they use Jews we are Jews, they use that just to serve what they're trying to do, not because they care about Judaism. So they say, as a Jew, I stand with Gaza. As a Jew, I believe Israel is a genocidal state. So they're using their Jewish identity. But what they're trying to do is to
Danny Burmawi (40:44)
Separate themselves from Judaism as much as possible as a trauma response. This is a generational trauma. They're trying to distinguish themselves from the group that keeps getting slaughtered all throughout history. They don't know that, but psychology can just you know explain it to us. this is a trauma response. If I identify with other groups, if I create
Danny Burmawi (41:10)
Enough ideas that everyone stands behind. This way I am not a distinct group. and of course I'm pretty sure that you have read a lot about this. So but there's like many theories to explain why many Jews stand behind these progressive crazy ideas. Now the left and Islam
Danny Burmawi (41:32)
First of all, the left don't care doesn't care about Islam. Let's get that try straight, okay? They don't care about Gaza, they don't care about Hamas, they don't care about Islam. They if a Muslim or a person from Gaza knocks on the door of one of these leftist people and asks to spend the night, they wouldn't open the door. But it is a way
Danny Burmawi (42:00)
to be weaponized or something to be weaponized against that system, which is you know in the classical Marxism they wanted to weaponize the proletariate the peasant the poor people but after that project failed in America because the poor became wealthy and the proletariate became wealthy they find
Danny Burmawi (42:25)
tried to find something else. So they found identities. you're black, you were oppressed. you're a woman, you are oppressed. you're a homosexual. you're a Muslim. Islam is
Susan Lapin (42:35)
Mm-hmm.
Danny Burmawi (42:36)
perfect because Islam is like a lot of, you know, grievances and victimhood and non Western, non Christian, non white. so they they deal with Islam as if it is a minority. Not two billion people but and as a race of course because again that
Danny Burmawi (42:54)
Weaponization of identities. So that is the only reason why the left cares about Islam. Just to take down the system. and they think, because many on the left, the majority on the left, they're you know the product of intelligestia, of the education system, so they think that they are smarter than religious people. So
Danny Burmawi (43:18)
In fact, they look at Muslims as stupid religious people that we can control. We can control their narrative, we can use it and we can control them. So they will never take over the system. We will take over the system. But they don't understand that Islam doesn't care about their intellect. Islam is when it comes to force and how smart you are, force is gonna win. Okay? It's not yeah.
Danny Burmawi (43:45)
you're not gonna win because you know history and you are an author of ten books. When someone comes with a bomb or with a knife, you're you're not gonna stop the violence. of course now Islamization is taking different shape. It is a through politics. So this is like policy jihad instead of violent jihad. So that is why
Danny Burmawi (44:07)
I don't expect to see a rise in Islamic terrorism in the West because why bother? Why jeopardize your progress if you are electing Congress members, senators, why jeopardize that by attacking the country? No, let's just keep doing what we're doing. It's working, it's great,
Danny Burmawi (44:31)
So yeah, this unholy alliance is just very understandable. It's not you shouldn't be puzzled with it. It's actually natural because both systems totalitarian wants to take down the Western system, and Israel is seen today as an extension of so Israel sees itself as the root of the West.
Susan Lapin (44:55)
What hmm?
Danny Burmawi (44:56)
The West sees Israel as an extension of the West.
Danny Burmawi (44:59)
And crazy leftist and Islam, they look at Israel as a Christian nation, colonialist nation. So they don't look at Israel as you know a Jewish state. They see it as the a part of the colonialism project, of the imperialism project. It's an outpost. So that is why today anti-Semitism is not only anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism today is actually anti-Westernism.
Susan Lapin (45:27)
We agree. What is we're coming to the end of our time together, but do you see signs of hope? Or where is the hope? Or are we just in a fatal fall at this point?
Danny Burmawi (45:39)
Yeah, and sadly Islam can only be controlled by dictatorships. So in China, Islam wouldn't be as effective. In Russia, the same thing. In the Arab countries, of course, because of dictators and especially Muslim dictators, they're the most effective in deterring Islam. But liberal democracy, I'm afraid it has the seeds of suicide embedded
Danny Burmawi (46:09)
in its body. So in order to save democracy you need to kill democracy. And that is very scary thing, I understand. But when you are living in a system that doesn't differentiate between people, everyone gets the same rights.
Danny Burmawi (46:31)
The person who wants to take down the system using that right will eventually be able to do it. So that is the the flow in democracy. But I would argue that.
Danny Burmawi (46:49)
A proper understanding of Islam as a political ideology, not as a religion, would deter Islam to a certain extent. But as long as you're saying or repeating the same false definition of what Islam is, you're empowering Islam. Because it's similar to I'm sorry, it's similar to a thief coming into your house to steal.
Danny Burmawi (47:18)
And yes, I compare Islam to a thief because Islam wants to steal the liberal democratic man-made system and replace it with sharia. So if a thief is coming into your house to steal, and you know he's a thief, and you know that he's you know looking at your safe, he wants to open it. But you keep saying, you're not, they say you're a thief.
Danny Burmawi (47:48)
They are bigots. You're amazing. You're just here, you know, as a guest. The thief is gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, you idiot. So it's the same thing. It's like you're empowering the thief. And you're not allowed, by the way. You're not allowed to pose and say to the thief, you're a thief.
Danny Burmawi (48:16)
After you have said no, you're not. Why? Because that requires a total shift in your system, a total shift in your position, and could trigger violence. So the thief at that point, he would probably jump you or kill you. So this analogy or example is just to say.
Danny Burmawi (48:42)
If Western governments decide today to say, well, Islam is the problem, not Islamism, Islam itself is the problem. After admitting 50 million Muslims to Europe, what do you think is gonna happen? Millions and millions of people will be doing Charlie Hebdo everywhere.
Danny Burmawi (49:04)
To every government official who would dare to call Islam by what it really is. So that is what we are trying to do in America is to convince the government, the elected officials, to identify the thief, which is Islam as a political system, before it's too late. Because now the thief is at the door.
Danny Burmawi (49:33)
Still at the door, you're opening the door a little bit, he's stepping in, but you can just push him out. What do I mean by push him out? I'm not here, I don't want to be misunderstood. I'm not talking about individual Muslims. As I said at the beginning, the majority of Muslims they don't care about any of the political aspects of Islam. Unfortunately, they will end up empowering those who care about the political aspect of Islam. But
Danny Burmawi (50:00)
I'm talking about identifying Islam as the problem so that you can deter it. Muslims themselves, when you expose Islam as a political ideology, their reaction is gonna be similar to the reaction of the Muslim Brotherhood, for example, in Jordan. The Jordanian government could crush the Muslim Brotherhood and their reaction is very minimal because they have to hide.
Danny Burmawi (50:26)
So that is what you need to do. You need to identify Islam as the root problem of this incompatibility between the Western liberalism and Islam.
Daniel Lapin (50:37)
I have two final questions. We're friends. We admire you greatly and we hope that we have an ongoing friendship from here onwards. Your advice to us
Susan Lapin (50:51)
In every century, an established Jewish community somewhere has had to flee, whether it was from England or Spain or Portugal or Germany or Iraq or or Morocco and live it's been everywhere. Those who waited till the end, think mid-twentieth century, very often lost their lives. Those who left it late
Susan Lapin (51:17)
May have escaped with their lives, but without any assets. They left as penniless refugees. Those who left on time early got away with their lives and a little bit of property. Tell us, you're our friend. Is it time for Susan and me to start planning a departure from America or not?
Danny Burmawi (51:38)
Well, definitely there will be some cities and eventually some states that is gonna be fully Islamized.
Danny Burmawi (51:49)
But Islam would never take over America because America is an empire and the secret is in the Second Amendment. So Islam will always be deterred in America. There's no worry. some cities and some states will eventually be Islamic. That's for sure. Now we have some small cities, Dearborn, Patterson, New Jersey, New York. Yeah, I'm adding New York to that list now.
Danny Burmawi (52:19)
with the process of time it's gonna be states, probably three, five, ten states that is gonna be Islamic. And there's gonna be definitely tension with the non-Islamic states, the bordering non-Islamic states, because Islam and its nature is expansionist. But to say that Islam is gonna take over America would be like
Danny Burmawi (52:42)
trying to make people panic with no enough evidence. The problem, however, is this.
Danny Burmawi (52:52)
The takeover from below, Islam would never succeed, as I said. But there is another takeover that could be from the top. And that is through acquiring enough political influence with the help of the useful idiots to change certain laws, to smuggle blasphemy laws, Islamic blasphemy laws.
Danny Burmawi (53:23)
to
Danny Burmawi (53:26)
Push for more policies that would weaken the individual in America. And at that point, the takeover would be different. But to say that no, Jews will not be safe in America, I don't see that. I don't see it. America, the majority of people are still Christians, many of them they still believe that God has a plan for the Jewish people, the Jews are not rejected from the plan of God.
Danny Burmawi (53:51)
And but in Europe, however, in Europe it's different situation. Europe in Western Europe, I believe that the enclaves are eventually going to be Gazas, different Gaza everywhere. And the calls for autonomy, separation, civil wars, that's inevitable. this is not just, you know, trying to exaggerate things. No, this is like I can't I can see it as clear as if it's happening.
Danny Burmawi (54:18)
You could call me a prophet or a fraud, I don't care. but it is the trajectory that we're seeing in Western Europe.
Daniel Lapin (54:28)
final question is I want you to talk about the your wonderful book, why you wrote it and why people need it.
Danny Burmawi (54:37)
Yeah, thank you. My book, Islam, Israel and the West, I wrote it to respond to October seventh, response in the West. So after what I've seen on the streets of different Western cities, the rebranding of Islamic jihad as resistance, liberation movements, and then the openization of the war in Gaza to
Danny Burmawi (55:02)
destroy the West itself.
Danny Burmawi (55:04)
I wrote it out of a moral obligation to warn a nation from the same fate of the civilization of my ancestors. Because if you look at the Middle East, North Africa, it's like this is Christian territory and it was on the path, the same path of Europe, of prosperity, of human dignity, of freedom.
Danny Burmawi (55:28)
but it was Islamized and stagnated and never got the chance to reach that level. so I don't want to see the destruction of one of the greatest civilization in human history as a result of misunderstanding Islam or dealing with Islam as just, you know, another religion, or dealing with Islamic jihad as liberation or response to imperialism, or seeing Zionism as a dangerous project, while in fact
Danny Burmawi (55:56)
And in reality, we need to re-Zionize the West because Zionism is about self-determination, sovereignty. It's about not caving down to the enemy. And this is what Zionism today is. Zionism today is about the right of the Jewish people to be sovereign on their ancestral land. The West is losing that. The West is losing that sense of sovereignty. So we need Zionism to save the West.
Danny Burmawi (56:23)
Zionism is not the problem, Zionism, the solution.
Susan Lapin (56:26)
Well, thank you so much for spending time with us and we really hope Danny, you
Danny Burmawi (56:29)
Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Daniel Lapin (56:33)
you are a very courageous man.
Danny Burmawi (56:36)
I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Susan Lapin (56:38)
we really feel privileged to have had the opportunity of sharing you with our audience.
Danny Burmawi (56:45)
Thank you,
Susan Lapin (56:46)
looking forward to further connection. God bless you.
Danny Burmawi (56:49)
God bless you too. Bye bye.
